The Lightening Process

[Nessab]

I watched the Lorraine Kelly interview etc on ME this week. Has anyone tried the lightening Process or visited a practitioner? I would be very interested to find out results and comments etc? Regards Vanessa

[Trapped]

Hi Vanessa,

I have heard very negative things on the lightning process. If you take a look on the me association page you will see people talking about how appalled they were at advertising the 'scam' in the interview. Heres the link

<a href="http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_68630803256" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_68630803256</a>

you will need to scroll down as it was posted on the day of the interview. i have tried to copy and paste not sure if it will work

<i>Ellen Goudsmit
Awful item on ME on Lorraine today. As my mother said to me, you wouldn't survive one day of the three day LP course.
on Wednesday
8 people like this.
Tony Britton Ellen I missed it! Did the Lorraine show make any attempt to inject balance into the LP story, ie a dissenting view? Tony
Wednesday at 9:14am ·
Ellen Goudsmit We got a 'this doesn't work for everyone' sentence. As got GET, has no one noticedthat it only works in the UK and that may be simply becasue they don't check for compliance using actigraphy? cf Black and McCully?
Wednesday at 9:31am ·
Ellen Goudsmit MRI study online now. NMR in Biomedicine. Needs a physician to interpret but given my MRI, this makes sense.
Wednesday at 9:32am ·
Maxine Middleton Do you have a link Ellen
Wednesday at 9:36am ·
Ellen Goudsmit Try this:
Wednesday at 9:40am ·
Ellen Goudsmit Can someone help to explain why if I try and save a pdf using Adobe X and the save icon in the toolbar, my XP computer crashes. It happened with this paper and googling found nothing.
Wednesday at 9:41am ·
Chris Evans link posted above for the tv clip on the scam...
Wednesday at 10:51am ·
Annabel Schleutker Tony, Dr Hilary quoted 85% postive outcome for those who try LP, was not a balanced interview at all....
Wednesday at 11:54am · 4 people
Annabel Schleutker Who should we write to to complain? I don't often complain but this is something I want to complain about as it was such a misinformed piece
Wednesday at 11:55am ·
Annabel Schleutker Oh, Tony, ishould mention that Dr Hilary referred to people going from their hosptial beds with M.E to climbing the Himalayas within a few months after trying LP, oh please....
Wednesday at 11:56am · 1 person
Chris Evans <a href="http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2009/10/broadcast-complaints-2/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2009/10/broadcast-complaints-2/</a> annabel this is a great place to start...
Wednesday at 11:57am ·
Annabel Schleutker Great, thanks Chris. What should I say to illustrate that LP is an unproven treatment?
Wednesday at 12:15pm ·
Annabel Schleutker Did anyone also notice that now the LP is supposed to help change our thoughts to influence the immune system? This is a change before they claimed the process helped to decrease the allegedly high adrenalin levels, now it's the immune system. Funny how the theory has changed - to fit in no doubt with the decent bio medical research that indicates that dysfunction of the immune system is probably involved in M.E.
Wednesday at 12:20pm · 4 people
Ellen Goudsmit They really need to read the MRI study findings. Shrinkage or loss of glial cells.
Wednesday at 12:35pm · 1 person
Joss Wanton Tony - unfortunately for you you can watch it here: <a href="http://www.itv.com/lorraine/health/me-support/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.itv.com/lorraine/health/me-support/</a>
Wednesday at 1:12pm · 1 person
Paul Kayes Have emailed to complain about the promotion of LP, there is also a Lorraine page on FB and lot's have been adding comments and leaving some helpful reports on M.E.
Wednesday at 1:14pm · 1 person
Tony Britton Joss: Oh, I've seen it. Low light of my day! I'm so glad I refused to have anything to do with it when the MEA was asked to take part a few weeks ago.
Wednesday at 1:23pm · 1 person
Paul Kayes Did you know at that stage that they would be promoting LP ?
Wednesday at 1:24pm · 1 person
Joss Wanton I'm sorry you had to experience that Tony - at least there are people demonstrating on behalf of all of us in London today.
Wednesday at 1:25pm ·
Mike Green Trading Standards have already issued an opinion that Phil Parkers claims of success are criminal breaches of the law! Therefore Dr Hiliary's statements are likely breaches of OFCOM rules.

Complaints are made to OFCOM -

<a href="<a href="http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/</a>tv-and-radio/a-specific-programme/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/</a>tv-and-radio/a-specific-programme/</a>
Wednesday at 1:26pm · 1 person
Mike Green Letters from Trading Standards:

Ref: Lightning Process (Ref 350332)

This is an update as to the progress of your complaint regarding The Phil Parker Group (referred to as TPPG). Thank you for all the information you have provided and I have s...See More
Wednesday at 1:29pm · 1 person
Joss Wanton Mike - do you have a link to the original judgement?
Wednesday at 1:30pm ·
Mike Green Trading Standards were then asked if the course itself was illegal as often the same illegal claims are made on the course. TSS then replied that they could conside and injunction to prevent all claims made.

"If they do not comply then we ca...See More
Wednesday at 1:31pm ·
Tony Britton Paul - let's say I had a full and frank discussion lasting about 40 minutes in which I laid down lines beyond which the MEA would not cross. It was very friendly but firm. I also described my understanding of the process the LP use to claim such high success rates, which we believe to be so unobjective as to be worthless. Tony
Wednesday at 1:34pm ·
Mike Green Hiya Joss, It wasnt a judgement, TSS do not issue judgements only opinions. They can then take cases to criminal court. However, In this case they have taken an alternative route and sent their opinion to the ASA for a judgement, as the ASA...See More
Wednesday at 1:34pm ·
Jane Clout I made a complaint on the ofcom freephone number. They said I should also register a complaint with Advertising Standards, so I did that too, here <a href="http://www.asa.org.uk/Complaints/How-to-complain.aspx" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.asa.org.uk/Complaints/How-to-complain.aspx</a>
Ofcom tel no is freephone 0300 123 3333. Here's their website: <a href="http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/</a>
Wednesday at 1:39pm · 3 people
Mike Green Great work Jane, Thanks for the number too. I will phone in as well:-)
Wednesday at 1:40pm ·
Joss Wanton Thank you Mike Green
Wednesday at 1:44pm ·
Joss Wanton Complaint submitted
Wednesday at 2:18pm ·
Annabel Schleutker Complaint to ofcom submitted. Just got to do asa now, but getting very jittery....
Wednesday at 2:20pm ·
Annabel Schleutker Thanks too for giving the contact info for ofcom and asa
Wednesday at 2:22pm ·
Joss Wanton I contacted the National ME Centre a few years ago when there was a piece about esther's daughter and the LP in the Mail. I was told that findley was sending some private patinets for it and that the centre did not endorse it and that it was not efficacious in the long-term.
Wednesday at 3:35pm ·
Elaine Brodie I am a patient of the Optimum health clinic and currently undergoing treatment with them following a terrible relapse at end on last year. I started on the nutrition side at the clinic but this month starting on the psychology so we will se...See More
Wednesday at 3:55pm ·
Annabel Schleutker Elaine, may I ask what you mean by nlp 'helping you to get out of your emotional trap?' Thanks
Wednesday at 3:59pm ·
Elaine Brodie annabel ive been taking supplements to correct my many physical imbalances but i keep reacting to all the treatments even at very low doses and detoxification period been terrible. I get so irritable and stressed easy too and basically when...See More
Wednesday at 4:10pm ·
Jane Clout Every afternoon I have a pot of redbush tea with a slice of ginger and an inch of liquorice root. It helps with stress, with that wired feeling, truly it does. If I miss it, the next day I know it. Disruption of the HPA axis in us is as ...See More
Wednesday at 4:17pm · 2 people
Elaine Brodie lol jane that is good to know x may give it a go see if works for me. I try to avoid bananas as not good for adrenal fatigue x
Wednesday at 4:20pm ·
Jane Clout It's a matter of balance, I guess, Elaine. I'm off to put the kettle on now <img src="images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="Big Grin" />
Wednesday at 4:25pm · 1 person
Paul Kayes White no sugar for me )
Wednesday at 4:26pm ·
Elaine Brodie enjoy jane, lol you sweet enough paul ;-0
Wednesday at 4:33pm ·
Annabel Schleutker Thanks Elaine for your reply. Jane, interesting info about your tea. Hope you enjoyed the cuppa x
Wednesday at 4:47pm ·
Mike Green ‎Elaine Brodie may I ask what tests were used to diagnose you with "adrenal fatigue/low cortisol." This thread was originally about the Lightning Process as described by Dr Shepherd as a "brainwashing" scam.

However I think it is important ...See More
Wednesday at 4:53pm · 1 person
Elaine Brodie I would have prev agreed with what your saying Paul, but sometimes rest and relaxation is simply not enough to address the body's high state alert, that way for me. I have low stomach acid, and a leaky gut as well as other nutirional defici...See More
Wednesday at 5:11pm ·
Mike Green I thought it may be Genova:-) Their Saliva tests for cortisol have been proven to be highly inaccurate. That is why they lack accreditation for them.

Sadly I know people that have suffered terrible problems after being mislead by Genova tes...See More
Wednesday at 5:21pm ·
Belinda Tilley Hi Elaine - when you refer to NLP, do you mean Neuro-Linguistic Programming? If so, I believe that is something quite different to the Lightning Process.
Wednesday at 5:25pm ·
Elaine Brodie Hi Belinda well spotted :-) i meant both lp and nlp as well as other tools. lp is helpful in some cases if you have maladaptive stress response but you usually need more than one approach to get a lasting result so you need nlp eft etc too. Everyone is diff and approaches they require are therefore diff x
Wednesday at 5:44pm ·
Belinda Tilley As I know this is a physical disease, I know that genuinely lasting change will come from a cure based on understanding and treating the physical causes. But I wish you well.
Wednesday at 6:15pm · 1 person
Mike Green I think its important to point out that NLP was invented by Richard Bandler, a man who was a drug dealer, ran an illegal brothel and also is believed by many, although not convicted, of shooting and killing one of his protitutes in the face...See More
Wednesday at 8:24pm · 2 people
Mike Green Evidence that CBT and many psychological "tools" are worthless

<a href="http://blogs.bmj.com/ebmh-talk/2009/03/12/evidence-mounts-that-cbt-is-bogus/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.bmj.com/ebmh-talk/2009/03/12/evidence-mounts-that-cbt-is-bogus/</a>

<a href="http://www.eiyh.org.uk/silo/files/cbt-for-psychosis-review.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.eiyh.org.uk/silo/files/cbt-for-psychosis-review.pdf</a>
...See More
Wednesday at 8:26pm ·
Elaine Brodie Hi mike...yep I will let u know how I get on with nhs tests. Meditation and relaxation not enough for me as in too high stress state so fingers xd extra help does work. X
Wednesday at 8:43pm ·
Elaine Brodie I hear where your coming from mike and you do have valid points, I agree on the feeling better and being better statement. But hey I might prove you wrong ;-). Joined this group ages ago, first time making comment today lol very heavy going on here! Do you hve m.e/cfs?
Wednesday at 8:50pm ·
Belinda Tilley I hope you feel better Elaine x
Wednesday at 8:59pm ·</i>

I want to believe it works because i would definatly try if everything else fails x
edited by Trapped on 5/13/2011
<em>edited by Trapped on 5/13/2011</em>

[Trapped]

It is a bit hard to read may be best to look on the actual page x

[Nessab]

Thanks for that - I had my own thoughts but thought I was being negative!

[Trapped]

I remember reading a few months back that you have to shout STOP and stupid things like that and your not allowed to talk to anyone incase you say negative things like nothing's happening!!

But i have also read that it does help people so who knows!!

[TJ]

The programme was a straight up commercial for Phil Parker's Lighting Process®. Dr Hilary was probably paid to endorse it. This website tells the other side of the story <a href="http://web.me.com/johnsayer23/LP/Home.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://web.me.com/johnsayer23/LP/Home.html</a>

It's also worth knowing that the Lighting Process websites are under investigation by Trading Standards at this time, who say

"there are a number of areas where The Phil Parker Group may have made misleading actions and omissions which constitute breaches of this legislation."

A former member of this forum put out the cash for this "therapy". Thought it might have worked for a time but ended up with same problems as initially. You don't hear about the bad sides directly from people who have been through it because they are told that if it doesn't work it's because they've not "got it", or thay haven't applied the programme correctly.

Any therapy where you are not allowed to talk about it outside the group has to be dodgy, doesn't it?

I guess it will work with some people - if you were just depressed for example - and such misdiagnosis is very likely to happen given how useless GPs can be at diagnosing ME properly.


--
TJ

[TJ]

The programme was a straight up commercial for Phil Parker's Lighting Process®. Dr Hilary was probably paid to endorse it. This website tells the other side of the story <a href="http://web.me.com/johnsayer23/LP/Home.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://web.me.com/johnsayer23/LP/Home.html</a>

It's also worth knowing that the Lighting Process websites are under investigation by Trading Standards at this time, who say

"there are a number of areas where The Phil Parker Group may have made misleading actions and omissions which constitute breaches of this legislation."

A former member of this forum put out the cash for this "therapy". Thought it might have worked for a time but ended up with same problems as initially. You don't hear about the bad sides directly from people who have been through it because they are told that if it doesn't work it's because they've not "got it", or thay haven't applied the programme correctly.

Any therapy where you are not allowed to talk about it outside the group has to be dodgy, doesn't it?

I guess it will work with some people - if you were just depressed for example - and such misdiagnosis is very likely to happen given how useless GPs can be at diagnosing ME properly.


--
TJ

[Cbear]

Hi All.

I did the Lightning Process in 2006. To be honest, the whole process is all about changing the way that you think and what you say. They talk about seeing everything you do as an action of your own choice and in the beginning encourage you to talk in such a way. For example, if you felt tired, instead of saying, 'I feel tired', you would say, 'I am DOING feeing tired'. This way, when you start learning the process, they say to you that if you are 'Doing Tired' or 'Doing ME', then you are doing this out of choice and that it is possible to do the opposite, like 'I am doing feeling full of energy', and so on. You can believe them and have a bit of an, 'Ah ha', moment. However, as you carry out the process in your everyday life, changing a negative thought that you have for a positive thought and remembering a time when you felt well, or happy, or whatever the negative thought is about and letting yourself go back to that time in your head and experience that time again and then take that feeling with you can incorporate it into the now, so that you are feeling that posotove thought/feeling again now. Everytime you get a negative thought you change it and so on. They say that it stops the adrenaline cycle and changes the old negative neural pathways in the brain to more positive ones which in turn ends up making you better. For some people they say that it is almost instant. For me it was not a good experience. I did the LP and then went home. I did the process all the time, and tried to get back to exercise and stuff all the while telling myself that I was full of energy and so on. Surprise, surprise I ended up getting really sick and tired and much worse. And then I felt guilty and like I failure, that the process could work for others and not for me! Just awful. I am sorry, but I would not recommend this process. It is nothing more than some kind of foney faith healing and can be quite dangerous for sick and vulnerable ME sufferers....

Clare

[Nessab]

I think you are probably right - I looked on the website and also watched the exert from the Lorraine show. I know you cant judge by first impressions - but unfortunately you do have to sometimes and I was immediately cynical etc. I was just very interested to hear other peoples views. Lets hope there are some real answers and solid treatment soon!! Regards Vanessa

[Cbear]

Hi Vanessa.

I just think that it is such a waste of money. I think people would do better to invest £500, or it could be more now, in something sound and scientific like Breakspear or another ME specialist.

Clare x